Fuel

[graafen]

As the fuel prices in this country continue to climb rumours are starting to fly around that another fuel protest is immenent. Speaking with my work colleagues it seems there are mixed feelings about this, with quite a few not wanting this to happen because they are too dependant on their cars.

So I put this to you, if we don't protest what do we do instead? How can we force the goverment to reduce the tax on fuel?

Comments

[rustyfox.livejournal.com]

The government cry, correctly, that this is a global problem. I haven't heard any acknowledgement yet of the extra bonus £££££££££'s raked in from current duty and VAT from a 'world crisis'. Greedy bastards can easilly lighten the load, I'm sure.

I was on the fence for a while but overall I'm for the protests, if they happen - I think most of this is media hype. As you say, if we don't take direct action, what do we do? Moan about it quietly over a cup of tea, that's what!

We need a government that promotes future fuels. Me? I won't notice a fuel crisis - veg oil gets me from A to B :)

[fionacat.livejournal.com]

Mass conversion to Autogas.

Get people to do it supercheap for a week, get as many folks using Autogas as possible.

[graafen]

The problem with that plan is what happens once people convert to Autogas? I'm sure that the government/fuel companies will find an excuse to increase the price on that. That's what happened with Diesel originally.

[hytiger.livejournal.com]

The duty on LPG is only frozen til next year, when it will double (at least) to bring the duty in line with other transportation fuels, this is one of the main reasons why very few people are converting. Given current gas prices, it is possible that it will end up around the same price as petrol!

[graafen]

I knew it. >:|

[shep-shepherd.livejournal.com]

Typical 'New Labour' :(

Who actually voted for them?

[graafen]

Not me, I voted Lib Dem.

[shep-shepherd.livejournal.com]

I voted for the other party ;)

[avon-deer.livejournal.com]

Not Green, surely.

[shep-shepherd.livejournal.com]

Nope.

[nuwolf.livejournal.com]

Conservative. ;)

[nidonocu.livejournal.com]

Hmm... I'd say write to your local MP as a collective group and actually see what they their view is and what action might be good to take actually. o.O

[darac.livejournal.com]

I like the idea that, because there are rumours of panic buying at the pumps, people are going out and... panic buying :) It was rather surprising to see queues out onto the road as I came home to Brum last night.

As to your question, I would suggest moving to the point where petrol isn't such a money-spinner for the government. If only a few hundred or a few thousand litres of petrol are sold every year, then there's little point in having a 60% tax on it, is there?

[arakinuk.livejournal.com]

the roundabout as I leave work was clogged yesterday with people turning off towards the nearby petrol station, plus a coworker queued 20mins this morning to get fuel he needed *rolls eyes* annoying when one actually needs fuel (like for driving a 160mi round trip to Bedford on Wednesday evening)

[darac.livejournal.com]

There was a clip on the news last night. Woman pulls onto forecourt and is greeted by an attendant:

Attendant: Petrol or Diesel?
Woman: Petrol.
Attendant: OK, queue up over there. The wait's about an hour at this point.
Woman: OK.

Buh! I amused myself in the queues last night by revving my engine. I have enough fuel to last until next weekend so don't mind me :)

[avon-deer.livejournal.com]

I like my taxation, like I like my women....direct. ;)

[shep-shepherd.livejournal.com]

Reduce fuel duty, then find something VAT-free to put VAT on?

[graafen]

That would be the best idea, but the government don't seem too keen on doing that.

[shep-shepherd.livejournal.com]

Put VAT on childrens' clothes, a sort of 'breeder tax' if you will :P

I would have said put more tax on tobacco, but I know how much you love the pipe smoking...

[rustyfox.livejournal.com]

I'd put a duty on every second+ child.

[graafen]

YES.

[shep-shepherd.livejournal.com]

Seconded.

[graafen]

I don't smoke that much, so extra duty on tobacco wouldn't really affect me.

Besides, pipe tobacco goes quite far. :)

[shep-shepherd.livejournal.com]

Up the tax on tobacco and introduce the 'breeder tax' :P

[garrwolfdog.livejournal.com]

reduce fuel duty and reclassify Jaffa Cakes as biscuits insted of cakes and thus allowing the government o charge VAT on them.
for some reason chocolate biscuits get taked but cakes's don't,.. so when yo but jaffa Cakes you're nto giving money to a potential corrupt government,. hence why Jaffa Cakes are the anarchist's chocolate covered snack of choice. :)

[garrwolfdog.livejournal.com]

but as for a better way to get the government's attention?,........ hmmmmmmmmmmm,..... get me lots of sulphur, salt-peter and charchoal and meet me near westminster bridge with abox of matches on november 5th
>.>
<.

[avon-deer.livejournal.com]

Already been tried, and it failed.

[garrwolfdog.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but last time it wasn't planned by ME :P

Actually, for £4000000 or 3.5 tonnes of afgan heroin I could build you an orbital EMP weapon with the power to disable an entire city. target an finacial capital like London and you could send the world into utter chaos,.....

[avon-deer.livejournal.com]

If i remember right, the original conspirator had a problem with the King's imposition of the book of common prayer, rather than having a beef with parliament itself.

But I am sure if fuel duty had been around in the 17th century, it would have been a big gripe then as well. ;)

[garrwolfdog.livejournal.com]

the original conspiritors were part of that whole protistant-catholic colflict that's still ripping places liek northern ireland apart today,... at the time just being catholic was still a serious hazzard for your health.

[garrwolfdog.livejournal.com]

although, that said, it's not 100% clear what the motives were as Fawks' confession came after 3-4 days fo torture, so he could have been confessing to just abotu anything they wanted him to,...

[schnee.livejournal.com]

Buy more fuel-efficient cars?

Why do you *want* to reduce the tax on fuel, anyway? If you're causing a problem (pollution, greenhouse effect etc. in this case), then it's your obligation to pay for the remedy.

The way to go is not to reduce taxes; the way to go is to reduce fuel consumption and the effects it has.

[graafen]

Our cars are actually quite fuel-efficient compared to other countries (like America) and we have a safey and roadworthyness test, which includes emissions tests(unlike America, which doesn't).

We've done a lot to reduce the amount of pollution our cars cause, and even with that we're still charged through the nose for our fuel.

[schnee.livejournal.com]

*noddles*

[ysengrin.livejournal.com]

Some areas in the US require something very much like the MOT test - but it's handled at the state level and can vary wildly from place to place. Some localities it's not much more than a check to see if the break lights work, other places it's a full blown emissions and mechanical check.

[ysengrin.livejournal.com]

"Brake" lights that is. I need my morning coffee.

[graafen]

Ahhh, my bad then. :)

[rustyfox.livejournal.com]

The promotion of fuel-efficient cars should start with the government. The promotion of renewable-fuel cars should start with the government. They need to have the balls to stand up to the oil industry who bury technology detrimental to their business, no private company can reasonably be expected to do so. As far as I know, we have a trickle of at best hybrid cars, and little seems known about them. We need a government hell-bent on selling as many new generation engines as possible. We need a government who will invest in refining renewable carbon-neutral fuels. What's been done so far isn't good enough. It's one thing to stand and shout about environmental effects, but we never hear anything about alternatives - other than those who have everything in reach of their doorstep bantering, "oh, well just don't drive". Usefull. Very usefull.

The more I uncover on 'green' fuels the more I learn about other countries having already got there. Elsewhere in the EU many busses are already run on biodiesel. What does the average person here know about it? Everything comes from the top, without commitment from the top down there's no reason or incentive for the huge corporations to take upon themselves a greener attitude.

And as Thalyi points out, we do at least require yearly emissions tests and road safety checks, engines taxed according to pollution output, and thankfully we in the UK don't have a culture of 5mpg oversized engines. Despite this effort we're still taxed to buggery though. I hear plenty about the duty being there to counter environmental damage - I hear nothing about exactly what remedies that pays for. A governement that cares? Hardly.

[schnee.livejournal.com]

Well, it's up to you to put pressure on the government/corporations/..., though. Buy cars that are fuel-efficient, as opposed ones that aren't - or if you can't find a suitable car, write to the industry and tell them that they've lost a sale because they're not selling the kind of car you want.

I'm sure you could come up with lots of other things to do. Yes, there *are* things the government can do, but ultimately, the power lies with the purchasers, doesn't it?

[rustyfox.livejournal.com]

I can see your point but would have to disagree. Most people (*I* think) are apathetic towards the whole thing. They are, afterall, our leaders.

We need leaders with a different attitude, that's my whole point. Even the green party seemed to have the wrong idea, and just continue this taxation farce to "protect" the environment with no firm idea of how to do things differently. We need leaders with balls and sights set in the right direction in the first place. Most of us lowly tax payers either don't presently care or are naturally ignorant of what could be done, or has already been done - and burried.

I'm doing my bit - experiments with rapeseed oil in my 8 year old turbodiesel are going well. The carbon I'm putting back is no more than that used to grow the stuff, with no apparant loss of performance. As far as I'm concerned, this is the future. There exists the refined biodiesel version (100% and 5% blended with ordinary diesel), but very few engines can run with it unmodified (due mostly to rubber corrosion than anything funamentally different). Our government are well aware things could change tomorrow, and thousands of people with the right cars already could start filling with easily renewable, much greener biodiesel fuels, and millions of newer cars could be built with only minor modifications, sold with national marketing campaigns to spread awareness of this 'new' wonder-fuel that won't dry up. Every chippy in the land could be paid to recycle their waste oils. So why isn't this happening?

I'm sure it's nothing to do with the lack of excuse for taxing near 50% :-/

[kaysho.livejournal.com]

Sensible governments (i.e. governments who want to accomplish the feathers and hissing thing) know to tax things most heavily that "people will buy anyway", like petrol or smokes or booze. So give 'em a little individual protest and buy less petrol, price elasticity of demand be damned! :)