graafen: (Default)
[personal profile] graafen
Sorry for making another LJ post but I've just though of something whilst I was having a fag.

When the UK Smoking Ban (Health Act 2006) kicks in in July there is going to be an increase in litter.

People who choose to smoke will not stop simply because they are banned from smoking indoors (pubs, clubs, indoor smoking areas), they will instead just go outside to smoke. We know this and the government knows this. The number of dropped cigarette ends will increase exponentially as a result.

Part of me thinks that this has been taken into consideration all along as dropping litter in most places carries a fine, where I live it's a £50 spot fine from dropping a cigarette butt.

Of course, if councils were to increase the number of litter bins within cities and place them at appropriate locations (outside of pubs, clubs, etc), then there wouldn't be a problem. However we all know that most councils won't bother.

I'm pretty sure the smoking ban was just a typical knee-jerk reaction anyway, which is becoming typical with this Labour government. Perhaps if everyone (politians and the common people) were a little more objective and stopped trying to force things through quickly then this country would be a better place.

EDIT: Just to make this clear to everyone, this is my own opinion and I'm not going to think any less of you for voicing yours in a comment. :)

Date: 2007-02-08 04:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
It's a divisive issue but I'm in full support of the smoking ban. I don't think it'll increase litter at all (or negligible if it does, and that says nothing very positive about those smokers who do litter, does it?)

While I passionately hate this government, I don't automatically hate every decision they make. If they were to ban smoking outright, in open public spaces, or in peoples own homes, then they can fuck right off.

But I fail to see how it's unreasonable to deprive everyone else (in enclosed public spaces) of clean air, as has been the arrogant case right up until now. I look forward to going out more often without reeking of other peoples rancid poison afterwards.

Date: 2007-02-08 05:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I imagine the reaction from a good many non-smokers will be a slightly smug "tough". Since forever smokers have had the right to pollute other peoples air, and too often do. And I'd join other non-smokers in being quick to remind you that smoking is your choice, not a disability granting you special rights.

I've no idea about private clubs explicitly for smoking in, but I'm quite pleased there's no exemptions - a pissy middle ground that suits nobody is typical of Blair's way, and would only serve to undermine the whole purpose. Suddenly everywhere would be a "private venue". I'm glad the middle ground wasn't chosen.

Now if only they'd been so serious over the hunting with dogs act...

Date: 2007-02-08 08:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I'm just upset that now I can't grow old, get rich, and join a Gentlemen's Club where we can all enjoy fine wine and decent cigars/pipes. Think like the type of club Willy Fog was part of in the cartoon. :)

Labour has ruined my dreams. I wonder if the cab of a steam locomotive counts as indoors...

Date: 2007-02-08 05:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
The way things are going, I reckon that the only place that you will be able to smoke in a few years' time is home, as someone will surely try to ban smoking outdoors :/

Date: 2007-02-08 05:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
In my ideal world people wouldn't even want to smoke, but if they ever try to ban outdoor smoking, I'll be all against that.

Date: 2007-02-08 05:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I'm quite happy for people to smoke outside. People should put their stubs in the bin, though ;)

Date: 2007-02-09 12:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Here on the left coast, they indeed do such things. Several cities around here have outdoor smoking bans. Which, in my opinion, is the biggest crock of horseshit to ever come out of a legislature, and I'm happy to break said laws at every convenience I have. :)

Date: 2007-02-08 05:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
when i went to the dark city festival in edinborough last year it was a bit of a shock. they allready have a smoking ban. however it did turn out to be a way of meeting cool new people (and getting invited to a three some 0.0)

Date: 2007-02-08 05:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Eh, I'm with [ profile] rustyfox on this one. Nothing to stop people smoking at home or outside -- and if there was, that'd be pretty stupid. But I dislike the whole argument that goes, "If smoking is allowed here, get used to it or go elsewhere." Especially as the majority of pubs or clubs I've been in so far have allowed smoking, and the noxious haze that accompanies it.

Yes, the smoking ban has some downsides as well, but such laws only work in an "all or nothing" kind of way, and given that the majority of people would prefer to avoid others' smoke whenever possible, it doesn't seem like an unfair decision to me.

Date: 2007-02-08 05:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
There was a lot of arguing like that with the smoking bans spreading throughout the states here, but honestly, in about 2 months or so, it just turns routine. Personally with as bad as I am around smoke, I've been enjoying shows a lot better for being able to breathe instead of standing in smoke-filled fog, then gagging for a few days after.

Date: 2007-02-08 05:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
smoking indoors has been banned here for over a year or so now in Ontario. the reason why they banned it was because the mass magouirty here doesn't smoke, and people don't want to taste yellow shit in there food while their eating, or coughing up a lung, or not able to breath. also for health reasons EG childern getting ashmare cause of there ass hole parents smoking in the same inclosed space as them and don't care.

i think it was a best thing are shitty government ever did. Smoking indoors here leads to huge as fins to, along with littering or how ever u spell it. i beleive they are working on just ban smoking all together. it save on so much health care and i really hate smoking.

Date: 2007-02-08 06:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Yes, while I never want to see any laws banning what people do in their own homes, it always depresses me to think about some parents who just don't care that their children are forced to breath in that shit. The sheer arrogance of some smokers is just unbelievable.

Date: 2007-02-08 08:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
The smoking ban confuses me somewhat. I mean, the Government want us all to stop smoking so they're making it harder for smokers to find nice places to smoke...

... But with tobacco taxed to buggery, if everyone DID stop smoking, the Government would lose billions of pounds in tax each year.

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

Date: 2007-02-09 12:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Yeah, I smoke.

No, I don't care that they ban it indoors. Although I do miss my greasy-spoon coffee-'n-smokes, I can get down on that. Don't want people with sensitive palletes gettin' all injured. :)

But, if you want to talk draconian, certain cities around here ban smoking everywhere, even outdoors. Now, that, well, let's just say that I vehemently break that law at every chance I get. And I love watching people scurry off after I tell them to go fuck themselves when they get all huffy about it.

Date: 2007-02-09 09:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
In Chesterfield they pre-empted this by handing out free 'personal ashtrays', a fire proof press stud small pouch for putting butts in until you get to a bin.

Date: 2007-02-09 10:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I don't know... I think a smoking ban is a good idea. I'm a non-smoker myself, and I really hate the fact that I can't go to a pub, club or another such place without immediately being greated by thick clouds of smoke and without emerging with a noticeably reduced lifetime and stinky clothes afterwards. :P

It's not that I actually *mind* people smoking; that's fine with me. But I do mind that there's no way for me to escape it, at least when I want to go to pubs, clubs and the like. (I usually don't, of course, but the smoke is actually part of the reason for that.)

Some places are actually taking a step in the right direction by creating smoking and non-smoking zones, but since there typically isn't anything that'd actually keep the smoke from creeping over to the non-smoking zones, it's really just window dressing. I wouldn't complain if there were actually separate rooms for smokers and non-smokers, for example.

But of course, that's only what it's like in Germany; I don't know about the UK. :) And we don't have a smoking ban law here, either - there was supposed to be one, but the tobacco industry lobby still has too much influence and managed to keep it from being passed.

Ah well. I do agree about litter bins, though - these *should* be provided in ample numbers so that people who want to smoke outside actually have a chance to do so.


Date: 2007-02-10 09:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I'd rather have a few more cigarette ends on the ground than smoke in the air I'm breathing. I've been going to pubs and bars more often lately (I used to go hardly ever), usually because friends are going, and I hate that I invariably reek of smoke by the time I leave. Even my fursuit smells awful after Londonfur meets, and not because of sweat. At least if people really have to smoke, doing it outdoors will mean the smoke can dissipate before it forcibly impregnates my clothing and posessions.

On the other hand, I'll still say it's the responsibility of a person who's just smoked a cigarette to dispose of the waste like a responsible citizen, just the same as after someone's finished a bottle or can of drink or a sandwich that came in a wrapper. They should take their rubbish with them and throw it away next time they pass a bin, for goodness' sake. I do - it's not at all difficult or inconvenient and I don't see any excuse for dropping rubbish on the ground.

Anyway, that's just my little rant. ;)


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